tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6602396110338715183.post4695041040702637074..comments2023-06-17T09:58:43.729-04:00Comments on Animal Writes: Some Musings on Veganism, “Finikiness,” and Indulging in OmnivoryJenny Palmerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18216714991878395078noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6602396110338715183.post-47130607454638943362009-07-29T15:27:37.223-04:002009-07-29T15:27:37.223-04:00The website will only let me post a certain number...The website will only let me post a certain number of characters in one comment, so here's the rest of what I wanted to say:<br /><br />I think you misunderstood what I meant by finicky." I did not mean that one should eat non-vegan food to fit in, or that one shouldn't express one's beliefs in front of others. This is in fact one of the things I was warning against by my mention of asking about ingredients in restaurants; when I don't ask, it's mainly to avoid awkwardness, and I need to break this habit. What I perhaps didn't make clear about the Italian restaurant incident was that I'd gone way overboard with my complaints about the cheesy pasta, to the point where people were genuinely getting angry at me: rather than simply express my disappointment and leave it at that, I continued by saying, "Just think how you'd feel if you lived in the 19th century and were told to be polite at a place that employed slaves." While this was a legitimate thing to say, I don't think I said it tactfully, and I believe this hurt my cause more than it helped. So I guess what I meant to say is that if you push social boundaries to advocate for animal rights, you need to be careful with your choice of words, the circumstances in which you say them, and whether they will do anything to improve the situation at hand.<br />I see the same problem in PETA's campaigns that compare factory farming to slavery or the holocaust. While such comparisons are thought-provoking, I've heard far more people say they were offensive than that they convinced them to go vegan. Factory farming has enough horrors that one need not offend people in order to take a stand against it.Suzannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10565951626054567451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6602396110338715183.post-28075196944845577622009-07-29T15:18:58.017-04:002009-07-29T15:18:58.017-04:00Luella,
Thank you for your comments. However, ...Luella,<br /><br />Thank you for your comments. However, I want to make a few points.<br /><br />First, even if small welfare improvements do nothing to promote veganism, I disagree that this makes them unnecessary. We are a long way from converting everyone to being vegan, so the least we can do now is make sure the animals who are suffering now suffer less. Also, even if some people think that eating animal products is "justified" given that the animals are "treated well," I'm sure there are many others who will hear arguments for animal welfare and start thinking about these issues for the first time. Maybe some of these people will begin to question what is "humane," and this will direct them toward veganism. I don't know if any research has been done that supports or refutes the idea that welfare campaigns encourage veganism, but my initial decision to become vegan was from a welfare standpoint, so it isn't a stretch to imagine someone else taking the same path.<br /><br />Second, when I said that small indulgences could lead one down a path toward non-veganism, I was making a purely subjective comment about how my own psychology works, and was extending it to anyone else who has a similar psychology (which isn't necessarily everyone). As my title suggests, this posting was more a mixture of subjective musings with some philosophical ideas thrown in, than a prescription for how others should manage their veganism. If my language sounded prescriptive, I apologize for this. I suppose a better way to open my post would have been to describe the picnic cheese-eating act referred to in the second paragraph, or to mention my failure to ask about ingredients in restaurants, both of which arguably had more impact on the demand and SHOULD be stopped. But the point still stands that depending on the person, these types of acts lead one to feel less bad about slightly larger sins (which then lead to even larger ones) if one isn't careful.<br /><br />I guess one other thing I should have mentioned is the importance of periodically reminding yourself why you became vegan in the first place. Even if you set very straightforward boundaries for yourself, you are more likely to fail if your actions aren't backed up by strong beliefs. I meet many people who say that they'd NEVER be able to go vegan despite agreeing with its aims, and I was once the same way, until I forced myself to confront the reality of factory farming and this gave me the resolve to do something about it.Suzannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10565951626054567451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6602396110338715183.post-83807636238290309152009-07-27T13:15:07.632-04:002009-07-27T13:15:07.632-04:00Suzannium, I don't see how your post is helpin...Suzannium, I don't see how your post is helping the vegan movement. 1) There is no evidence that "small welfare improvements" will do anything for veganism. 2) There is no reason why small indulgences should lead anyone to stop being vegan who seriously felt they should be vegan. Why would eating some yoghurt no one else is going to eat make you believe that buying/demanding yoghurt is just as harmless? I just realized a few days ago that my jacket is made of "genuine leather." There is a huge difference between me wearing that jacket around the house since I already have it and going out and creating demand for more leather jackets.<br /><br />And finally, I don't understand why you are worried about "finicky" vegans. One time I was in a worker justice program, and the group was going to eat at a place called Ben's Chili Bowl, which had no vegan options. I told my vegetarian student coordinator I didn't want to eat there, so he suggested we stop and get me some vegan food I could eat there. I had some delicious, healthy Chinese food while they gorged on chili-cheese fries and hot dogs. You call that being finicky; I call it being resourceful. I loved the vegetarian guy because he was very disciplined about not eating meat, which encouraged me. He thought I was just being very disciplined and told me he admired that. On the other hand was a girl who wanted to be vegetarian but was too scared to even say so (all she said to our vegetarian coordinator was that she'd "prefer vegetarian if it's available") - it sounded kind of debilitating. I'd rather spend my time trying to give strength to people like that (they always think veganism is hard, but I tell them it's easy and fun) than start agreeing with them that being disciplined makes one "difficult to please" or requires one to be "finicky." I feel like veganism is being marginalized even further when vegans start saying that hanging out AND fitting in with their friends at some lame restaurant is more important than living up to their principles. Some people think that having a little extra muscle or indulging their taste-buds is more important than caring about animals - I'd rather not go down that same mental path. It's really not that hard to avoid.<br /><br />Bottom line: Be resourceful. Unless you are dependent on a family that is anti-vegan, there is always a way to fit in. If you have to, bring your own meal to the restaurant, or help the restaurant add vegan options. Here is a great talk on how to get restaurants to veganize their menu: http://blog.liberationbc.org/2009/07/activist-tools-video-of-a-let-live-talk/Luellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00756410146756239731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6602396110338715183.post-74138562302699565542009-07-27T10:29:59.930-04:002009-07-27T10:29:59.930-04:00Great insights. I think you hit the nail on the he...Great insights. I think you hit the nail on the head. If only vegans took the time and energy spent trying to go from 99.5% vegan to 99.9% vegan and redirected it toward activism and outreach and toward thinking more critically about how our food choices affect human laborers and the environment, as well as animals, we'd be doing a lot more good.Ben_Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03895098427762039892noreply@blogger.com